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Talk:David Maxwell Fyfe, 1st Earl of Kilmuir

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Mention should be made of David Maxwell Fyfe's disgraceful behavior as home secretary in the Derek Bentley case. Bentley, "who was dim-witted, had no record of violence, had no gun, had not fired the shot, and had been under police arrest for fifteen minutes before the fatal shooting" (DNB, entry for Derek Bentley), was executed in 1953 for the murder of Police Constable Sidney Miles.

Despite the manifest deficiencies of the trial, which included a notoriously biased summing up against the defense by the judge, the youth and mental deficiency of the defendant, and other factors, Maxwell Fyfe refused to recommend that the queen exercise the prerogative of mercy.

"There is little doubt that the home secretary was wrong in refusing to commute the sentence of death. Clemency can normally be exercised for any one of the following reasons: youth; mental problems; a jury recommendation for mercy; widespread or strong local public opinion; the principle that if the leading actor cannot be executed then neither should any associate; and the existence of more than a scintilla of doubt about the evidence. Bentley met each criterion. Maxwell Fyfe's advisers recommended clemency but he remained obdurate to the end." (ibid.)

Again from the DNB, "In 1997 the case was one of the earliest examined by the Criminal Cases Review Commission for a suspected miscarriage of justice. The commission determined that it merited referring back to the Court of Appeal to reconsider the verdict. This time the court decided that the conviction was unsafe and quashed it on 30 July 1998."— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.81.103.163 (talk) 04:25, 1 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree, I plan to add a few lines about Maxwell Fyfe's actions on the Derek Bentley case. Despite the appeals of 200 MPs, he decdided not to grant clemency. It was quite possible Maxwell Fyfe took the line that "someone must pay" over the death of the police officer since Craig was too young to hang.

smr 10:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)smrgeog— Preceding unsigned comment added by Smrgeog (talk • contribs) 10:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bizarre article name - propose rename

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Surely "David Maxwell Fyfe, 1st Earl of Kilmuir" comes on the stranger end of page titles. "1st Earl of Kilmuir" was hardly part of the guy's name? I propose to rename it to "David Maxwell-Fyfe" (including the hyphen as Maxwell was part of his doubled barrelled surname, not a middle name). — Blue-Haired Lawyer 20:55, 10 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Now that I look around I see other article with similar titles. Nonetheless, a search on Google produces many more entries which say either just "David Maxwell-Fyfe" or "Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe" than ones which refer to the 1st Earl of Kilmuir. Since I believe we normally leave out the sir from page titles, I'll go ahead with the rename. — Blue-Haired Lawyer 17:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Earlier Military Service

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Neither his sketch in the Dictionary of National Biography nor the more recent Oxford DNB mention he served in the Scots Guards (1918-19) according to Who Was Who, Burke's Peerage and Kelly's Handbook. I will mention this in this article with citation to Kelly's Handbook. What is not clear is whether he saw service abroad (particularly front-line) or if it was entirely home-based, or what rank he served to, given his age at the time. It would be interesting to see a photo of him (say in his judicial robes) after World War II clearly depicting any medals he held.Cloptonson (talk) 12:29, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know the answer, but the minimum age for service abroad was dropped from 19 to 18.5 during the manpower crisis early in 1918 (there were a great many 18 year old soldiers held back in Britain). So he still would have been too young at the time of the armistice, unless I'm wrong. He may have served in the army of occupation in Germany into 1919.Paulturtle (talk) 05:06, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Degree

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It can hardly be stated as an absolute fact that his third class was due to his interest in politics. II have added the word "perhaps". 22:45, 18 March 2018 (UTC)Seadowns (talk)

It's original research and I've removed it Billsmith60 (talk) 01:01, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:37, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:37, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Little couplet

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"The nearest thing to death in life is David Patrick Maxwell-Fyfe"

Anyone remember who said this? Paulturtle (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Paulturtle:"... though underneath that gloomy shell, he does himself extremely well". According to the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations it it was "said to be current on the Northern circuit in the late 1930s". The Sketch - Wednesday 03 January 1951 quotes it, and says "It is the custom of the Northern Circuit, at Grand Court after Mess, to rag its members with verses of this kind." and dates it to when Maxwell-Fyfe was 33. DuncanHill (talk) 01:15, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers.Paulturtle (talk) 01:59, 26 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Title

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As he only received his title after retiring from front line politics, I propose moving this to plain David Maxwell-Fyfe. PatGallacher (talk) 13:23, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 March 2025

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David Maxwell Fyfe, 1st Earl of Kilmuir → David Maxwell Fyfe – He was only made an Earl after he retired from front-line politics, see WP:NCROY. PatGallacher (talk) 00:50, 26 March 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 13:15, 4 April 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPathtalk 11:13, 12 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nowadays the judiciary are almost entirely autonomous and the title "Lord Chancellor" is held by the Minister of Justice as it is so deeply embedded in our laws that it would be very difficult to abolish altogether, as Blair discovered. However, the Lord Chancellor in the early 1960s was still a leading Cabinet Minister (and Speaker of the Lords and Head of the Judiciary (Quintin Hailsham actually used to sit as a Law Lord (the ancestor body to today's Supreme Court) - not sure if Kilmuir did). Kilmuir was the second-biggest scalp after Selwyn Lloyd in the Night of the Long Knives reshuffle in 1962. So you'd need to include a redirect to "Lord Kilmuir". Same with his successor Reginald Manningham-Buller who is much more famously known as Lord Chancellor Dilhorne.Paulturtle (talk) 19:11, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, "Lord Kilmuir" already does redirect here, obviously if the article was moved the target of this redirect would have to change. Secondly, during the time he was Lord Chancellor he was Viscount Kilmuir, it was only later that he became Earl of Kilmuir. PatGallacher (talk) 23:25, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'd missed the point that his Earldom was a later upgrade, for which I apologise, but the greater point still remains that he was "Lord Kilmuir" for a significant chunk of the peak of his career. I suppose a near analogy would be FE Smith who became Lord Birkenhead but only became an Earl quite late. It might be "peacocking" to include the life peerage title of a modern politician, but that's not really the case here. I'm not sure there's any hard and fast rule here - Lord John Russell's article lists him as "John, 1st Earl Russell", the title which he held as Foreign Secretary and during his brief second premiership, but he is actually better known by his previous title.Paulturtle (talk) 04:38, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The naming convention appears to be that people are listed by both their original name and their peerage title, with the highest rank of peerage which they attained even if that was a final perk late in their careers. This applies also to military figures like Marlborough, Wellington, Nelson & Kitchener. Kilmuir and Dilhorne are the last generation of politicians for which this applies, and it is not applied to modern politicians who are awarded life peerages or even Prime Ministers who were awarded hereditary peerages on retirement (Attlee, Eden, Macmillan). However, some older Prime Ministers who held hereditary peerages late in their active careers are also listed solely by their normal names (Disraeli, Balfour). (Also, the convention can't cope with people who are far better known by a different title which they held for most of their careers - Lord John Russell, Lords Robert & Hugh Cecil, Sir John French - but that doesn't really apply here). Anyway, it's not worth dying in a ditch over but the existing title of the article seems in line with usual wikipedia practice, which I assume people have bickered about.Paulturtle (talk) 06:42, 3 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this isn't worth dying in a ditch over, but I think the proposed new title is in keeping with Wikipedia standards. This person was plain David Maxwell Fyfe when he was Home Secretary, the post for which he is most famous (or notorious) plus some earlier important posts. Ultimately these cases have to be judged on their own merits, but Wellington was already a duke before the Battle of Waterloo, and Marlbourough was made a duke around the start of the War of the Spanish Succession, before his most famous victories. PatGallacher (talk) 12:12, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also, with a lot of Lord Chancellors this was the most senior post they held during their legal/political career, at least prior to the post being separated from the Lord Speaker. However, this person is different, he was also Home Secretary, regarded as a more senior post. PatGallacher (talk) 18:50, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Lord Chancellor was a senior post to Home Secretary, if not necessarily more powerful. Probably technically still is, but it certainly was then.Paulturtle (talk) 23:12, 5 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject University of Oxford, WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage, WikiProject Biography/Politics and government, WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, WikiProject Law, and WikiProject Biography have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPathtalk 13:15, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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